There’s a reason why we play Retro DBZ and Retro GT. Retro GT stinks. It’s not particularly compatible with DBZ, the source material sucks, the power creep is terrible, there are many pointless and confusing new mechanics/keywords, etc… That being said, there are a handful of cards that deserve a look for being brought over into DBZ. Many would need to have their attack values adjusted, but otherwise their abilities would fit right in with some of what we have tried to accomplish with the Retro DBZ format. Here are some on my list, ripe for adjustment and inclusion.
10. Hercule’s Crescent Punch
In DBGT, mill and hand discard were a little bit over the top. In fact, they were both part of the Black Style for that game and made an unholy combination of hand manipulation and aggressive unstoppable direct damage. I pretty much gave up on the game, but last I played you were pretty much running Black hand/deck discard or gearing your deck up for that inevitable match-up. This card started to mean the difference of winning or losing those matches. As it is right now, mill is a so-so deck in the environment and hand discard is dumb to play against, but not at the GT levels it once was. This card probably wouldn’t need much adjustment in damage and would most likely be relegated to the Sensei Deck in anticipation of a Black Style deck or Baba Mill deck. Still, I think it would be a welcome addition despite the more limited applications since a physical for 10 stages is nothing to sneeze at.
9. Broly Lv. 5
This card practically is a Z card, it even already has the Dragon Ball Z card back. Broly is already a pretty strong personality, but his current (and only) Level 5 is garbage. Now this one would definitely need some adjustments in damage and attack cost, but it would finally give Broly a more aggressive final level than what he currently has. Honestly, being a Level 5 with a power isn’t as useful as other levels, but just having that underwhelming Level 5 as your only option while Goku has four different ones to go through does the Legendary Super Saiyan no justice at all.
8. Black Command
Now I know I just got done saying how terrible Black made the game in GT, but by itself this card is more of a neat utility card than anything else. In fact, I wouldn’t mind if this card got the Black Scout Maneuver treatment and was made freestyle. I think that right now in the current meta, discard pile removal is an underused trick but would be extremely potent against many decks. And a card like this would really put some fear into Dragon Ball decks, having the potential to remove a few Dragon Balls in one swoop.
7. Saiyan Overhead Pound
First of all, before anyone says anything, that Masked and Shift crap has got to go. After that, this card would be an instant staple in Saiyan. With this, it make’s leading your attack with a Majin Buu’s Fury a much safer bet than the standard Gohan’s Kick. Unfortunately with this card, it means that at least two of your attacks have probably been blocked this combat, but if there is one style that can make a comeback from that, it’s Saiyan.
6. Orange Flanked Jabs
Orange was the ‘kinda’ ally style in DBZ, even though cards like Black Physical Focus and Blue Draining Blast would make Black and Blue a bit more practical in that endeavor. DBGT was much more aggressive in making Orange an ally style, and cards like this really cemented that. While the power stages that your allies entered play with might need some adjusting, this card could help revitalize the flailing Orange ally archetype.
5. Goten Lv. 1
Goten really got the short end of the Saiyan stick. He does nothing remarkable that can’t be done better by another personality. Even if you want to play as Gotenks, Kid Trunks is still a way better main. He has no named cards of any worth and his one “Goten Only” card is baffling in how terrible it is. This personality at least gives Goten a somewhat decent power that is similar to Carpet Attack Technique, what some consider to be a win condition all on its own. Sadly, Goten essentially becomes the Krillin of Dragon Ball GT: he takes a back seat to all his best friends adventures, he’s usually the first to encounter a new enemy and get his butt kicked by it, but (fortunately) he also becomes quite the ladies man (prolly NSFW).
4. Pan’s Stalwart Face Slap
This is a card that I just think is cute and would make for some fun turnarounds in game play. You couldn’t really build a deck around it and some match-ups it’ll be absolutely worthless (well, other than the 10 power stages of damage). But it would be neat jacking an opponent’s Fatherly Advice and leaving them with a less useful Victorious Drill. There are a lot of cool tricks you could do that would be fun, it’s just unfortunate how random it is. If this card were ever made for a Retro environment, it would likely be limited to one non-combat.
3. Gust of Wind
You can kinda tell that this card was made when no one really gave a crap what happened in the game any more. It’s like Aura Clash and Cell’s Threatening Position had a crack baby. I’ll say that I really like the “idea” of this card, and it made more sense in GT where there was actually some more consistency and power gain when it came to leveling up. Unfortunately in DBZ, the personalities are really all over the place with many characters pretty much being stronger at Level One than any other level. Sending some of them to a useless level three or four would end the game right there. Again, love the idea of the card, just wish it were more practical in DBZ.
2. The True Face of Evil
Another awesome looking card, really bringing in some Dragon Ball hate. I would definitely lower the damage on this attack to something like six (though the power stage cost is fine). The great thing about the timing on this card is that you could steal a Dragon Ball with the damage first and then remove the Dragon Ball from the game. Of all the cards on the list, this has been the one with the most “behind-the-scenes” discussion and is so far the closest GT card to being “reprinted” in Z. I would keep an eye on this one.
1. Going Super Saiyan
I have said before that I feel that leveling in the game should be something more common and beneficial. You can see this belief reflected in many of the Virtual Cards. I think how this card is set up, very similar to the MBS Goku, would be a great to influence leveling a bit more in the game. Of course, like all GT cards played in expanded, this one too would have to be reworded to prevent a Most Powerful Personality Victory after use. But hey, at least you don’t have to have Saiyan Heritage to use it.
Later, BroZ!
Overhead pound and the True Face of Evil would be great in Z. True Face would instantly replace the HUH??? in almost every sensei deck. I think it should be restricted to 1-2/deck if it’s brought over, however, to ensure that DB victory is not lost as a viable win condition.
1. Back in 2004 I was drinking the “Dragon Ball GT SUCKS!” Kool-aid. But I recently got the whole series in a DVD lot where I bought all of Z in the Orange box editions. And I must say GT honestly isn’t as awful as people act. It’s not great but it’s not horrible either. People complained about how slow Z was and how there would be 8 episodes of powering up. GT has nearly a fight per episode. Can’t please nerds I guess.
2. Now don’t take this the wrong way, but why would you want to port True Face of Evil to Z? Dragon Ball decks aren’t a dominant deck type right now. If you dislike Dragon Ball decks so much, just remove it as a win condition from the Retro format.
Personally I’d really like to see some of the Android 18 named cards make an appearance (with scaled damage of course) or the styled Trunks Energy Spheres.
Black Evil Glare, please.
I think the GT card game is great on it’s own. Expanded is a mess, but focused Z and focused GT are tons of fun. Now I do agree that there are a few cards from GT I would love to see in focused Z. I’m not sure about the True Face of Evil, that could effectively kill dragon ball as i viable deck type. Most of the Broly: Second Coming set would be nice except Black Torture Hold, Broly 1-4 and a few Saiyan cards. Vegeta SS4’s tri-blast would be a good card, Freestyle Vegeta needs a card to bolster it and this would be a great choice, I don’t even think you would have to adjust the damage, just rename it. Going Super Saiyan would be a great card to have, I love level hopping.
No edit button? I would also love to see some of the older villains get Villain Invasion-inspired remakes. Nappa, Dodoria, and some of the others deserve playable sets. I would like to see Saibaimen do something that isn’t totally terrible.
I personally like the expanded format more than any others. It gives the most variety of decks, with more interesting and fun strategies and combos. This variety requires more strategic deck building as you have a lot more decks to prepare for. And takes more skill to play as your deck should have more options to beat anything but you still need to focus it towards it’s goal for each specific game as effectively as possible. I know a lot of people think the T6 rule takes out skill, but those same people probably played with 18 or Roshi in Z.
As for those 10 cards, I think they’re better off staying in GT / Expanded. If you’re getting bored of Z and can see it needs improvements, there’s 2 other formats which are great to play around with.
Gust of Wind seems totally jacked from Pokémon lol
I do think GT has some cards that could improve the overall health of the game, in small doses. I also agree strongly with Andrew, above, that some older personalities need more support, and those cards could be borrowed from the late expansions. For example, Frieza got a huge boost from the virtual subset level 2 and 4, but still can’t compete with even the most paltry of heroes. Yamcha has as much support as Frieza for goodness sake.
A nerfed, balanced Hercule’s Crescent Punch SHOULD be in retro Z. Same with cards that can remove dragon balls (besides Huh). I also like Baby’s personality levels that can steal allies. I think Retro Z should have a personality that can steal personality levels; or, even further, cards that can steal allies besides that one Irwin Promo. That’d be awesome. It’d also keep Kamikaze / Baba / Bojack decks on high alert.
I can’t wait for the 2014 set.
The problem with Allies in the game is that they are meatshields that you can’t use. The idea that you need a card to lower your MP to let allies attack is trash and has always stuckout as bad design philosophy.
I wrote up a mechanic that let an Ally temporarily take over so you could use their power or have them defend with their power rating.
*Tag-Out
This keyworded mechanic gives you the option to switch control of Combat from your MP to one of your Allies without requiring your MP to be on their bottom 2 power stages.
When you use Tag-Out, you choose the Ally taking control of Combat and immediately from that point on, that personality is in control of Combat for you until the end of your next Defend Phase during that Combat. And after your next Defend Phase ends, your MP is given control of Combat.
Only the Ally you chose can perform attacks and use defense cards while it has control and your card effects cannot allow any other personality to take control of Combat while an Ally has control from the effects of the Tag-Out mechanic.
This list is pretty much garbage. Masked made holding back the better secondary effects its own mind game. Shifting made the game feel more alive by allowing you to change tactics in combat, highest rated GT mechanic after the leveling system.
What else we got,
-tech card,
-broly fanwanking,-
-maybe the one decent card in the lot, still low tier,
-tech card to deal with silver bullets,
-orange gets enough Allies out if you know what you’re doing,
-goten is trash and the power is only good in OVA decks as another OVA crash. also off-theme for him as it is.
-League Card,
-broken
-silver bullet bs. no on ever actually hit a dragon ball to see if it would break, Vegeta attempted to break one but Guldo yo. How does removing a ball even make sense flavorwise.
-Yeah, cause we really need to speed up leveling.
What we need is a better leveling system that rewards you for leveling. Option to keep old powers and use highest power rating from any previous level would be nice.
I stand with Kamiccolo when he said that GT Expanded is his favorite type. I also agree with all his reasons not to add these GT cards into the Retro Environment.
Here are my reasons I like GT Expanded better than all other formats:
–Strategy is the Key–
DB/DBZ/DBGT, as shows, focused on battles. The characters didn’t randomly choose how they fought. They fought with strategy and a good knowledge of their arsenal of moves. Same goes for the GT Mechanic of looking at your top 6. Instead of losing the game on a shafted 3 NC draw in the first turn of the game, you can actually stand a chance against your opponent. It makes the game more about skill than about luck (like Kamiccolo said).
–The Mechanics aren’t that hard to understand–
The rule book in Baby Saga does a pretty good job bringing everyone up to speed on how Z is incorporated into GT. There was not much confusion on playing expanded. You gain a couple of perks, if anything. The mechanics introduced in Shadow Dragon Saga are clear cut and explained in the rule book. If anything it added great elements that kept the game fresh.
–This is how the ENTIRE GAME ended–
When Kid Buu was released and GT was announced, I remember Score announcing that you will be able to use all of the Z cards with GT and there will be some gameplay changes (Bringing back the first point). Expanded was HUGE in my area. No one played Focused. Score continued to print Erratas for the expanded game, and even made changes to some of the z cards to fit with the environment. The Game died about 5 months after Lost Episodes came out, not when GT came out.
Now this is completely different when ended GT and put out that God-awful mess of a card game in 2006. They flat out said that You CANNOT use DBZ/DBGT CCG cards from their previous game. Why? Because it was a new game. That Sucked…. and was weaker than Raditz.
Retro Admins/virtual card creators, you have done an exceptional job and I believe that your cards could easily incorporate into the GT Expanded format. I say bring Expanded Format back!
I enjoy the variety of decks and think the current format is pretty well diverse. I haven’t had a problem so far creating new decks or at least decks that take a different approach to an old idea. Even this year I’ve got some great decks laid out and I can’t wait to see how they pan out.
I’m right there with you on #1. I don’t think GT did such a bad job at fixing this however. The remove 10 mechanic made a lot of different characters playable, since really you were never stuck on a level.
One of the big problems GT cards present is proxies. With many of the Championship cards you either have to allow all of them or none of them.
I’d be fine with Ki Intensity / Ki Focus, and anything of a similar rarity. ALC / SDF shouldn’t be allowed. Also unprinted cards like Instant Teleportation Drill. Actually I’m fine with any other unprinted cards. That drill should just never be in the game. Unreleased cards like Giru Season should be fine too.
But I do remember when we had expanded events online it was annoying having everyone throwing in all the rare cards. Not because it made them too strong but because there was so many that it made so many decks built so similar. Every game Farewell Drill would come out of both player’s decks 1st turn.
I think if you did the same thing to expanded as you’re doing with the retro format by changing the CRD or creating new cards it could be great. I’d love some more cards to support the unused SDS mechanics. Masked, Augmenting, and Training don’t have enough cards to give you a choice how to build and play them. The only issue would be how many people want to play the format and if it’s worth supporting. I know it gets a lot of hate from players. Maybe it needs a tournament at GenCon to test how popular it could be.
The styled Trunks Energy Spheres would be great, but I would scale them to be stop a combat card OR use the style specific power.
Tine I hope for would be Sword Breaker. Heroic Sword Catch being the only other block with Sword in the title, considering how popular sword decks are, and that Dabura and Tapion got virtual personality powers that are meant for sword decks, it wouldn’t hurt to have a few sword named blocks.
My primary decks have always been Freestyle and Namekian and GT shunned those styles.